A couple of months ago I was asking people about Mac laptops, as I was rather confused by the various options.
I’ve also been reading the rather excellent (sorry Ted!) MacBlogger site for the last couple of months and found it helpful.
A couple of threads on CI and queries also got me asking why on earth Mac users seem to be incapable of getting their heads around basic functions and tasks. ….
So this morning thanks to my nice new shiny American Express card I placed an order for a refurb Macbook Pro!
Before you ask…
The spec is as follows:
Refurbished MacBook Pro,
15-inch,
2.33GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
15.4-inch display (1440×900 resolution)
2GB (two SODIMMs) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM
120GB 5400-rpm Serial ATA hard drive
Slot-load 6x SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 256MB GDDR3 memory
Built-in iSight Camera
Front Row and Apple Remote
I also added a copy of Parallels and a laptop bag since I knew I’d need them …
So now all I have to do is wait for it to arrive ….
Turning to the dark side seems to be a growing trend. I was looking to buy a new laptop recently and after looking at various Dells etc. I settled on a MacBook. And I certainly don’t regret it for a moment. Mine arrived here at home in 6 working days.
I have mine dual booting XP (which I’ve only ever booted up on it twice) using boot camp. However I’ve recently been using VMware fusion on it and I have to say that Fusion is absolutely incredible.
Get yourself a copy of iWork too. Dunno about Numbers – I use Excel myself – but Keynote is really really nice. It’s like PPT done right, and done in such a way that it’s also easy to use.
If you’re tempted to get Microsoft Office, wait until Office 2008 for Mac is released. The current version is a PPC application and runs under Rosetta, which means that it’s slow and is a total memory hog.
Congratulations! I’m sure your experience will be more of an “excellent adventure” than a “bogus journey”.
Mine is dual-booting to Vista (freebie, courtesy of those nice people in MS Ireland), although I rarely feel the need.
In terms of productivity, iWork is pretty good, but I have gotten quite fond of NeoOffice, which is a port of OpenOffice. The latest version, out shortly, will support all the latest Office 2007 file formats.
I have my Mac for 18 trouble-free months, and I’m already looking forward to replacing it in 18 months time when the 3 year extended warranty expires.
Fair play, welcome and well done. But let’s get this right – you are moving FROM the darkside. Think of it this way, you’ve been banging bits of flint together for years and now you’ve just been handed a Zippo. It’ll be an iPhone next no doubt.
@ Webster
He already got a phone that is way better than the iPhone Mark, why on earth would he get an overpriced, under featured alternative? 🙂
Jeeez, cos it looks good, why else. We all know what a fashionista Michele is. Image is everything!!
Mark sure the N95 is a beautiful phone. Also ours have the latest software version on them, so a lot of the bugs that people saw in earlier releases have been ironed out and the speed of the GPS services has increased 5 fold!!! 🙂
Mark – the only way I’ll get an iPhone is if someone gives it to me. I’m very attached to my n95
Michele
FYI:
Mircosoft has always been “the dark side”…………… Not Apple. :o)
To quote Neal Stephenson’s In The Beginning There Was The Commandline:
“Unlike most Bay Area techies who revered the Macintosh, considering it to be a true hacker’s machine, [Doug] Barnes was fond of pointing out that the Mac, with its hermetically sealed architecture, was actually hostile to hackers, who are prone to tinkering and dogmatic about openness. By contrast, the IBM-compatible line of machines, which can easily be taken apart and plugged back together, was much more hackable.”
What’s the advantage of Apple other than that they tend to slightly prettier products?
Niall – I never thought I would say this but OS X i would consider to be the big advantage.
I’ve been using it for the past month and I can’t get over how it compares for the better especially compared to Vista.
You have come FROM the dark side, not TO it. You will understand this with some experience.
It’s hard to understand from someone telling you. It’s not like the difference between iPod and a wannabe MP3 player–it’s not so obvious that it hits you in the head. People like Niall here (who is no doubt confused by all the geeks pushing Microsoft for years) probably mean well, but are so utterly confused that it’s really very sad.
If you accept that Microsoft products are ‘good enough’ then you really should have some experience with what they have always copied. Apple does it first and does it right. Microsoft copies it part way. They dont’ want it to actually work, they want the ‘geek squads’ of the world to have jobs ‘supporting’ it for you (and charging you money while they force you into their inferior products.
You don’t need an IT director or a ‘geek squad’ to help you with the Mac. You can do it yourself, and if you did need help, practically everyone using one is willing and able to help you.
> Apple does it first and does it right.
Oh come off it. Apple rips off code, left right and centre. OS/X is a mix-em/match-em of piles of different types of systems, all glued together in a way which looks good on the outside. There are piles of fossils in the system, piles of incompatibilities, different libs for doing the same thing, and it’s not always a pretty sight.
What sets the system apart is the GUI, the well-designed application programs and the way that they control the end-user hardware, which means that they only have to support a limited number of different types of kit. All the rest is marketing fluff.
FWIW, the Windows GUI sucks horribly. And so does X + gnome / kde / etc. The OS/X GUI just sucks less.
Nick
Robert,
Vista has been out for more than a few months at this stage, and I still haven’t actually used it. It came installed on my laptop, and 45mins after pressing the power button I still didn’t have a desktop. So I put in a Ubuntu CD and had a fully functioning desktop in 25mins 🙂
To be honest i haven’t used OSX a lot, but there was two things that annoyed me:
1. Lack of Irish Keyboard
2. It tended to abstract away too much.
I can get over the keyboard thing, I learned to type on a Canadian keyboard, however it’s annoying when OSX thinks it knows best at every turn.
Niall.
Niall, leaving aside the many advantages of the machine, the OS and much of the software being made by the one company to work well together, when Neal S. wrote that quote, the Mac OS was a totally different beast. Mac OSX is now based on Unix, which means that if you’re that way inclined it’s so hackable it’s incredible.
Niall,
The keyboard thing is irritating, I’ll grant you that. take a look at my keyboard remapping for irish keyboards – it works quite nicely.
http://www.foobar.org/blog/just-how-annoying-is-a-mac-keyboard
Nick
I read your old post and comments and one thing I’d say is … get Applecare. Laptops are very expensive to repair (lots of labor) and over 3 years, since it’ll be moved around and put through a lot of work, it’s possible something will need to get fixed.
While extended warranties are usually a scam, the one exception is for laptops, in my opinion. I believe Consumer Reports agrees.
Granted, hopefully you’ll never have a problem, but you know, even the hard drive dying (and that’s just a question of when, not if), would set you back more than the cost of Applecare.
I believe even with a refurb you can add Applecare so long as it’s still under the original warranty. (which I assume is a year?)
>>they only have to support a limited number of different types of kit
There isn’t a whit of difference between a Gateway/Dell/HP/”built” (plug) it yourself. That is just a lame excuse for Microsoft incompetence. Just like the old saw about how they are hacked to death because they are so popular. Bollocks, it’s because it’s easy.
Apple on the other hand, does a far better job of supporing users with radically different processors and OSes. Alll the software just runs and the users don’t need to be bothered.
If you think too much is abstracted, then you just don’t understand the system very well. It’s all there for you, if you are inclined.
One thing Apple does better is included drivers. Most printers and cameras work just by plugging them in.
I have never had an issue with my keyboard, it just eh….Works! 🙂
The only thing that pisses me off a bit about my macbook keyboard is when I boot into XP and I go on auto-pilot and starting click the Mac Key instead of CTRL.
The keyboard settings I have on my iMac work just fine.
Nick, doesn’t iWork come as default?
Michele, which case did you get? I returned the first case I received from Apple as it was only a sleeve and didn’t leave any space for the charger kit. Instead I ordered this InCase.It has a few pouches but it doesn’t have enough space to adequately fit the charger kit, plus the grey colour makes the bag look like a ladies bag 🙁
If I was to order another bag today, I would probably get or the sleeve one I had before. With the sleeve bag at least you can slide the sleeve into a larger bag but the one I purchased was neither here nor there when it came to properly holding ALL the macbook equipment.
Michele, I left a HTML tag open in my previous post, it’s the last link. Woops.
There are some helpful Mac links on the this page on macblogger.net for those who may be interested..
Michele,
Could your N95 do this?
“iPhone saves golfer” from myitablet.com.
Michelle – you should try VMWare Fusion as an alternative to Parallels – http://www.vmware.com/products/fusion/
Run the apps much more natively than booting another entire OS.
Should have said: Mooving away from the dark side. …
@ mikhailovich
“… when Neal S. wrote that quote, the Mac OS was a totally different beast. Mac OSX is now based on Unix.”
I think Stephenson must have been talking about the hardware not the software. At least, that’s how I read the quotation Niall gives.
However, I’m not sure the distinction is as important now. AFAIK, since the transition to Intel processors, Mac OS X is running on hardware that is now IBM/PC-compatible. If your hard drive fails, for example, you can put in a standard part. (Not that you couldn’t when PPC processors were the rule.) I suppose Apple’s kit is not going to be someone’s first choice if he’s really into hardware hacking — their machines are generally harder to get into apart from anything else — but it doesn’t worry me, since I’m not a hardware hacker and not liable to do much more than add a bit of RAM myself.
The other thing to bear in mind is that Microsoft is moving the design of the PC away from the open architecture laid down by IBM. See this section in Peter Gutmann’s famous paper on Windows Vista Content Protection and its ramifications in both hardware and software.
Michele, visit myfirstmac.com for tons of info for a new Mac user including articles like 5 Things to Do After Starting Up Your Mac.
http://myfirstmac.com
I think you’ll like it.
I don’t understand this calling Apple and Macs the “dark side”. It’s common knowledge that this term has been used for years by Mac users referring to Microsoft Windows users. Can’t they even come up with an original derogatory term???
The guys are right about Windows being the Dark Side. ILM the guys who did the graphics for Star Wars have always been Mac fans. Apple even bought Pixar from Lucas. I’ve been a Mac user and technician since 1986 and have stayed away from the Dark Side ever since.
Welcome aboard, Leopard 10.5 the next version of OS X due out in October was just certified a true UNIX (UNIX 3 certification) and now is in class with the bigwigs like IBM, HP, etc. I have helped numerous folks switch, many going on their 2 and 3 Macs now. Most of the Mac bashers are now considered rude by the masses who are looking at Macs more seriously these days. It’s a good time to be a Mac user for sure.
Never heard of ol’ Neal till today, not sure he’s the definitive source of computer info either. I find this observation on his writing enlightening.
http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/mccmedia/counterrant.html
Beans.
Welcome to whatever side it is,
I get the feeling that you intend to run your new computer basically as a Windows machine. I suggest that you give the Macintosh and its applications a chance, though.
Oh! You will struggle with them, because you will be unlearning the Microsoft way of doing things. After several months of struggle, it will hit you suddenly that the Mac way is much more intuitive than the Microsoft way. What used to be an ordeal becomes fun because it feels so natural.
You can get on with your work because you don’t have a computer constantly bugging you, interrupting your train of thought. You aren’t afraid to try new things, because there is no way that the Mac will let you trash your system. Tons of potential headaches and problems will never happen. You’ll get back several hours a week that you now waste fiddling with your computer. You can stop feeding your life into a machine just to keep it working. Malware, adware, virus’– what’s that?
The only people that I have known who have gone back to PC have been those who wouldn’t give the Mac the time to learn it. It really feels as though you had been forced to be left-handed all you life and then you learn to use your right hand. There is a struggle to do that, because all your training is to be left-handed. But, if you persevere, you’ll find that you were always meant to be a Mac person.
Clearly, you have never had your hands on an iPhone…when you do, the N95 will seem passe.
I’m overwhelmed by the number of helpful and interesting comments !
I’ll try to follow up to as many as possible in reverse order (easier on my brain at this time of night!)
@Louis – considering I’m writing this on a linux powered desktop and my current laptop also runs linux I’d have to disagree. I may use windows, but I’d hardly consider my computer usage to be compliant with “the Microsoft way” 🙂
@Tom Gorman – play on words? Parody?
@Chris – thanks for the link. I’ll definitely be checking it out.
@Colm – several Mac users have mentioned it to me. I opted for parallels as it was easy enough to just grab it at the same time as the laptop.
@wxFran – the n95 is a bit too small for that 🙂
@Cormac – I opted for the BRENTHAVEN FUSION BAG which looked nice enough. I am a bit awkward, so leaving a laptop without a cover of some kind could lead to expensive issues
@Neil – I’m used to using Linux where I just hook up a device and the OS recognises it. Windows’ hardware support has always struck me as a bit braindead. One of the last times I installed it on a PC I had to use a linux disc to get online to download the drivers for the ethernet card!
@Marcos – Can I add Applecare after the purchase?
@Nick – is the keyboard mapping that bad? I used Macs years ago ie. pre OS X but I can’t remember much about the keyboards
@Scot – the iPhone isn’t available over here yet. I know I *could* get one off eBay, but there wouldn’t be much point as yet 🙂
Michele,
AFAIK, you can add Applecare any time before the phone support ends after 90 days (that’s what I did). I wouldn’t be surprised if you can add it any time until the initial hardware cover expires…
I had a little bit of a row with Apple over Applecare: they allowed me to pay for it by cheque – but wouldn’t a replacement mouse when mine went belly up, because I hadn’t got a credit card. Their policy is to get a card imprint in order to ensure that the faulty part is returned. It took me a while, but I eventually got there…
Fran
wxFran – I’ll look into again, but I remember being shocked by how much they were trying to charge for it.
What _exactly_ is covered by AppleCare?
Michele
Michele,
I didn’t read the fine print, and I’m not usually one for extended warranties. As well as the obvious hardware support and replacement, software support on all the Apple supplied applications is also included.
I bought the Applecare as I was nervous about needing support, but to be honest, using my Mac was the easiest and most natural learning process. Whenever I have to deal with a PC problem now, I often find myself shaking my head at the awkward and counter-intuitive way Windows does things.
It can seem expensive, but the way I look at it is that my Mac cost more than my car, and the “Apple insurance” cost a hell of a lot less than those blood-sucking leeches at FBD are charging me…
Fran
Congrats on the new purchase.
I’m sure that once you have your Mac in front of you, you’ll hardly be able to put it down. Not because it’s a Mac, but because it’s different, and because there’s a lot to learn and figure out.
I’m a firm believer in using the right tool for the job, sometimes that meas using Windows, sometimes it means using Linux, and other times it means using a Mac. It’s just that anyone who has spent the time getting to know their Mac will begin to realise that more often than not, it is the right tool for the job.
I spent nearly €2000 on a new desktop last summer, and since I got my Mac, I’ve hardly looked at it, mainly because I can do everything I need to on my Mac.
Enjoy your new machine, give it a bit of time, and you’ll be a master in no time!
Cheers,
Paul
Referring to Microsoft and Windows PCs as “The Dark Side” came from Microsoft’s utter dominance of the market. Gates was compared to the Emperor in Star Wars. So, that makes Ballmer, um, Vader? I guess . . (In reality Gates and his wife are my heroes for their social activism work).
So to the supposedly “evil empire” Apple is the underdog. Strangely, though, there’s a lot of anti-Apple sentiment out there among some Windows users probably due to the Mac vs. Windows wars. Truth is, the war was over long ago. Microsoft won.
But Apple, the current Apple, is very different from the Apple of the 80’s and 90’s. Their products tend to be very well thought out–from a user’s perspective. I like that OS X doesn’t get in my way. There are no yellow pop-up bubbles reminding me incessantly about stupid crap. There are fewer wizards. Thank God! I don’t need the computer getting in my way and holding my hand through routine operations such as setting up networking or zipping / unzipping, etc.
I didn’t have to “authenticate” OS X or allow “Genuine Advantage” verify my license before system updates. I also have a real system disc. And I can swap in and out components till the cows come home and not have to worry about OS X forcing me to authenticate. In fact, retail copies of OS X have no copy protection whatsoever! Think about that. Not to mention that I don’t have antivirus / antispyware software slowing down my machine.
Apple software is some of the best out there overall. I’ve heard people complain about iTunes and Quicktime on Windows. But as you might imagine, they work very well on my Macs. So do the iLife apps. The interfaces are extremely well-designed making the software convenient to use. Including iTunes / iPod.
Michelle, I hope your new machine works well for you. When you have questions, Mac users will be glad to help you. I like http://www.MacOSX.com. But there are plenty other sites. And as a Linux user it won’t take you long to get used to OS X’s command line. It lives in /Applications/Utilities. You’ll want to drag it to your Dock. Better yet, look for one of the Terminal replacements such as iTerm.
Bot
I stand corrected; there are Linux users that consider any commercial software, MS and Apple, the “Dark Side.”
I simply saw nothing in your article that would make me conclude that you used Linux. I’m no leftist; And Open Source has a large anti- capitalist bias. I don’t object to paying people for what I use.
I don’t like monopolies; that is why I use Apple instead of MS. But, Linux has never approached my standards of usability. I can speak geek, but I’m basically too lazy to talk it much.
I still suggest that you give Macintosh applications a chance. Since, most of the Linux desktop applications compete basically with MS Windows, then they tend to follow MS’s maladroit rules. So, all my point apply. Linux still has a long way to go to match the Mac in ease of use. So, it takes some getting used to.
Of course, you could always run Linux on a Mac in a separate partition– at least since Mac OS X, so what’s the big deal? What are you giving up? Why are you so reluctant to move?
@ Louis Wheeler
“Of course, you could always run Linux on a Mac in a separate partition”
That was certainly problematic at one time, because OS X uses EFI rather than a BIOS. Amit Singh actually had a chapter of his book Mac OS X Internals on OS X on getting around the problems involved.
But that was awhile back: things may be different now. And there’s always Parallels.
Wow 40 comments on mac vs. windows !
Just one question Michele : Where did you buy the refurbed mac ?
Walter
The Apple store has a refurb section with a good selection of laptops, desktops, servers and other gear. According to a few people I spoke to the refurbished models are good value for money, so I couldn’t see the point in forking out more on a new one when I could simply get a slightly beefier refurb.
Michele
@Louis Wheeler
If I was so “reluctant” to move I wouldn’t have just forked out the bones of two thousand euro on an Apple laptop. I could easily have:
– not done anything
– bought a new Dell laptop
I think you’ve misunderstood some of my comments / queries in previous posts.
I use computers for work and for pleasure. I need to be able to do certain things and like you I really don’t have the time or energy to be playing about and jumping through hoops to get things working. So I need to have software that can allow me to read MS office documents. That doesn’t mean that I want to use Windows. It means I want to be able to read and edit files.
Michele
Thanks Michele,
I’ll take a look. I’m torn between getting another IBM ThinkPad or a Mac (I already have a ThinkPad and a PPC iBook – both wonderful machines).
Walter
Walter
There’s supposed to be a new release of the Mac OS in the next couple of months, so maybe you could wait for that? I was going to, but I got impatient
Michele
I’ve been using Ubuntu for well over a year now and have never had ANY issues with configuration or running of the machine. (mind you – I did build the machine myself -www.komplett.ie)
I have NEVER run a disk defrag on my machine and it runs as fast as the day I bought it.
On top – I have access to thousands of applications from the Application Manager program.
In short – I don’t believe the underlying hardware makes a difference – since Macs now use Intel Processors.
I will grant that Apple macs tend to be better put together (little quieter and nicer looking).
However, It’s more the software that causes the problems with the computers.
With the release of Windows Vista – I don’t think it will be long before many small to medium sized business will not only see the financial sense in switching away from Windows – but will also benefit from productivity as a result (less downtime)
Open Office has the potential to save companies hundreds of millions in licensing fees.
Michele – the only issue I have with my current MBP is the heat it generates – quite uncomfortable if you actually have it on your lap.
You can however turn up the fans manually:
http://homepage.mac.com/holtmann/eidac/software/smcfancontrol2/index.html
Great little utility which cools down the MBP in no time :0)
Welcome to the family.
My order for a 17″ MacBook Pro is going to be submitted before Friday….just waiting for the bank to clear this cheque…
And of course…now I want a 24″ iMac…
Welcome to the Light Side…
more and more people are discovering Macs.
BTW the refurbished Mac is better than “new”. Smart girl. 😉 I’ve bought several refurbished Apple products – all worked flawlessly … for years! Now that Macs can run Windows as well as OS X, one can have both if they need. Compared to OS X, using Windows is like running a Marathon with a 90 lb pack on your back. Why would one do that? I think you’ll find the “Mac” experience exhillirating. Have fun, it’s easy on a Mac.
RE AppleCare.
Out of the box you get 90 days telephone support – one year parts and labor (also covers installed software).
After 90 you still have telephone support but at a charge.
You can purchase AppleCare at any point during the year. Free Telephone tech support kicks back in once you purchase.
If you ONLY use AppleCare for telephone tech support once during the three years it can be a life saver. Personally since I paid for it I use it as often as I encounter anything amiss or that makes me scratch my head. (after all I paid for it).
That said if you EVER need repair (I had to have my optical drive replaced two years in) – it more than pays for itself.
And it is true — Consumer Reports said “Do NOT purchase extended warrantees on consumer electronics . . . EXCEPT FOR APPLECARE!
Congrats Michele. I puchased a macbook for personal use a few months back and I have to say it was money well spent.
Michele,
Glad to hear! I purchased a macmini last december as a Home Theater PC. I’ve hooked it up to my DLP tv and it works great! I use it to watch HD programming and it looks superb!
Photos, Music, and TV are all i use it for. No keyboard or mouse required, I VNC into it from my laptop.
Glad to know you’re part of the group now!
–Jason
MacGeek is correct…you have 1 year after buying your Mac to purchase AppleCare.
Let me reiterate — you do get 90 days free telephone support — after that you do pay a per call fee — UNLESS you have AppleCare. All calls are free for three years.
I use telephone tech support all the time (after all I paid for it).
If you choose to wait eleven months then you lose the free support . . . but when you purchase AppleCare the free support kicks back in.
I should also mention that AppleCare is attached to the hardware — so if you ever should sell the portable before the end of the term of the Care then you can sell the machine with Apple warrantee (and can pretty much get your asking price).
OR — you can CANCEL AppleCare at any point in time and will receive a prorated refund on the ‘unused’ portion. Handy if you are selling used and wish to ‘pass along’ the AppleCare to your new machine. (in other words – getting a check from Apple and then using that to purchase AppleCare on your next computer).
Mac Geek
Some of that sounds really great, but if Apples are so user friendly, why would I need so much telephone support?
I can see how covering the hardware for an extended period of time might be attractive and being honest I’ve been pretty lucky with hardware over the years. However everyone keeps on going on about the phone support, which strikes me as odd.
Michele
Michele,
Uh, it’s a computer. Things can happen. Nobody ever said it was perfect, just that it seems like it when compared to a windoze system.
If you actually did order a Mac (I am starting to not believe it) then why did you do that? I mean, you seem to think it was a bad idea. You really seem to be flamebaiting–first with the ‘darkside’ nonsense, and now with the backhanded questions. Is this just a joke or what?
Brad
Yes. Things can happen. I just don’t understand why you all harp on about the Apple support thing so much.
If you don’t believe that I ordered it that’s your problem. My problem will be paying off the Amex bill 🙂
Michele
I’ve never used the telephone suuport apart from for hardware warraanty. Plus there’s a dozen places to take your mac in Ireland if you need help.
AppleCare is worth it.
MJ
that seems logical 🙂
Michele
“If you don’t believe that I ordered it that’s your problem. My problem will be paying off the Amex bill.”
LOL.
*And*, unlike on Linux, the software you might need costs, too (although there’s some good freeware and free and open source stuff – and all the standard *nix stuff via X11, if necessary).
Will you hold off on some of the desirable software like TextMate, NetNewsWire, OmniOutliner, etc. just yet? … and there’s iWorks, I suppose. iWorks is very reasonably priced for what it is, but, AFAIK, new machines only come with a trial version. I’m still going with a very old version of iLife, because I only really use iPhoto, so I’m not about to pay for the whole suite anew every time they upgrade it.
Michael
As I mentioned in a previous post, when I was still in the exploratory stages of my purchase, I won’t need to have loads and loads of extra software. Some of the things I *need* to do are quite basic and will be addressed with the standard software. Other things can be done with open source software and others will probably involve me forking out for some extra commercial software – eg. Office, which people are telling me I should really wait for.
Michele
Definitely hold off for Office. I have Office 2004 for Mac, and it’s slow – very slow. Office 2008 is now expected in January 2008, but it’s probably worth holding out for. More info is available on the MS Office for Mac blog.
http://blogs.msdn.com/macmojo/
“Office, which people are telling me I should really wait for.”
The current version is quite old. It was written for PPC, so needs to run in Rosetta on Intel, which makes it slow. It also can’t deal with Microsoft’s new OOXML format. The new version should be out early next year.
I haven’t got Office myself. I guess it’s probably worth it to anyone who can get educational discount and unavoidable to anyone who needs perfect compatibility with Office documents. But the full price seems steep to me.
“”*And*, unlike on Linux, the software you might need costs, too (although there’s some good freeware and free and open source stuff – and all the standard *nix stuff via X11, if necessary).””
All software on Linux is free? Um…no…
Most of the software is very very polished and is incredibly stable. There are some real gems out there (like Delicious Library, Vienna, OmniGraffle) but a lot of it comes down to personal taste. Heck, my fiancee is halfway converted to the Mac and just had a wee moment when I was out last night and she discovered PhotoBooth lying in the recesses of my Macbook’s apps folder. I arrived in work to see half a dozen images she’d taken of herself (ALL SFW, but just WEIRD).
Michele – make sure you hook up with either Clubmac or NIMUG. The user group network is REALLY useful for newbies to the Mac especially when you’re being faced with ignorance and bias.
I’m working with Windows 2000 all day these days so getting home to my Mac is a breath of fresh air. I don’t know people put up with Windows…
@mj
“All software on Linux is free? Um…no…”
What you mean: “Um”? Are you not sure of what you want to say?
That all software on Linux is free was not a statement I made. Of course, most of what most people will need *is*, and I understand the lady comes from a Linux background. It makes a difference.
@Mac People: A Mac is an overpriced PC. What exactly can you do on a Mac that you cannot do on a half the price PC? Seriously? You browse the net, create documents, code, listen to music, play games (sorry, thats a PC thing mainly), work. What there can you not do on a PC that you can do on MAC?
A mac is an injection into the ego’s of people who already have inflated senses of their own worth.
Get over it, the world and the internet doesnt give a shit if you have a mac, only you do.
lady?????????
@Jimmy Phelan
Differences between a Mac and a PC?
As a Mac newbie, these the differences I’ve noticed since I’ve moved:
– no serious virus/ spyware problems,
– better security,
– more of an effort put into UI design and usability,
– cheaper OS upgrades (Leopard will be about €150, Windows Home Premium is approx €600),
– increased stability,
Because of all of these, I can spend more time doing constructive work, rather than spending my time applying patches, scanning for virii and spyware, restarting every time a new device/ program/ patch is installed.
Up until a couple of months ago I was a dedicated Windows user, and I still use Windows on a daily basis, but I’d rather use my Mac if at all possible.
@Paul: That’s not they’re not differences between a Mac and a PC, they’re differences between Windows and Unix/MacOS.
– no serious virus/ spyware problems,
I run XP SP2, never had either yet, touch wood
– better security
This point and the above need to be taken into context. What is the percentage of windows users versus mac users / *nix users. Its basic marketting, you dont make a product and try to sell it to a smaller market share, you go for the big slice of the pie.
– more of an effort put into UI design and usability,
Eh, perhaps, i will give you that OSX looks and feels better than 2000 and XP, but what can you do on a MAC that you cant do on Windows? I mean i can write a document in notepad or i can writ a document in Word, i still have a document at the end that i had to type
– cheaper OS upgrades (Leopard will be about €150, Windows Home Premium is approx €600),
MS pricing is stupid, there is no disputing that, but it doesnt make their operating system less than capable in a functionality comparisson, it just shows that they are clowns when it comes to pricing.
– increased stability,
Refer to keiths comment
@Jimmy Phelan
It’s so true. That said, the last time I went to a FLOSS conference there was a little group of Linux geeks lusting after some of the cool tools that were just built-in on my Mac rather than non-existent on Windows or Linux. Some of the smart guys there enjoyed a debate on how they could replicate that functionality and it was really educational.
In the end, they all bought MacBooks and then set about creating useful apps as opposed to replicating functionality that already existed.
If you’re happy with your hardware and software, more power to you. If you don’t care what hardware and software Michele is using, then why comment here other than to troll?
@Michael
What you said was:
“”*And*, unlike on Linux, the software you might need costs, too””
Do you work in PR or politics?
Free software has it’s place. It’s unmatched in value in areas like web serving or server operating systems) but free software advocates who try and tell me that TheGIMP compares to Photoshop in any meaningful way deserve ridicule. If TheGIMP can replace your use of Photoshop, then you didn’t NEED Photoshop in the first place because you weren’t using 80% of its features.
Michele – Enjoy what you have. you have a machine which can run Mac OS, Linux and Windows, all at the same time too. You have access to award winning software on award winning hardware and if you need to play with FLOSS, you have good old crunchy UNIX underneath the fabulous GUI.
Unlimited flexibility doesn’t have to look crap.
@Keith: I don’t know know about you but I generally don’t interact directly with the hardware in any system. The OS and associated applications are what allows me to productively use my computer, and with a Mac I can be a lot more productive than I can on a Windows system.
Like I said in my first comment above, I prefer to use the right tool for the job. To extend the analogy, I’d prefer to actually use the tool instead of double-checking it for problems every time I pick it up.
I also use Windows, but since I bought my MacBook, I’ve been using it a lot less. That’s just my experience, and my usage pattern.
@mj:
Tools like what? If it’s the fancy windows management, you should have a look at projects like Compiz on Linux. On a bog standard HP laptop with Intel graphics I can enable “Desktop Effects” with a click of one check box. I have them disabled again though as I prefer functionality over eyecandy. Saying that, bouncing windows off the sides of the screen is fun every now and then.
I am interested in whatever other cool apps might on the Mac but aren’t available elsewhere though.
@Keith:
Maybe you’ve never had a virus infection or a spyware problem, but do you have anti-virus or anti-spyware installed? At this stage, it’s nearly de rigeur for a Windows machine to have both installed.
In the case of my Mac, I don’t need either. Maybe it is a case that the smaller installed user-base for Macs means that there is less of a target for virus writers and phishers, but the fact is that because of the underlying *Nix base, the OS is inherently more secure. With some work Windows can be just as secure, but it’s not something that a new user will be able to figure out on their own, much less care about. In the case of OS X, it’s secure out of the box, no tweaking of permissions and no constant UAC prompts.
Since Apple started to Intel processors, the underlying hardware has moved towards that found in a PC, but yet OS X is still more stable on that platform than Windows is.
You may argue that the differences I pointed out are simply differences between Mac OS X and Windows, but from a usability point of view, that’s what makes a Mac useful. I spend a lot less time trying to make it work than I do trying to make Windows work.
Cheers,
Paul.
Good to hear Michele. I think you’ll see, as I did rather quickly, that the ‘dark side’ is in fact a very ‘bright side’. Enjoy the mac!
@Niall:
I hear you, but there’s a difference between “eye candy” and “good GUI”.
Bouncing Windows off the sides of your screen is a great demo but it’s not actually useful in any meaningful way.
As I wrote elsewhere:
“”In Mac OS X, menus appear instantly and fade out. The behaviour is fluid.
On Windows, menus take time to fade in before you can make a selection. Waiting for the fade-in slows you down.
In Mac OS X, drop shadows indicate clearly which window is foremost due to the thickness of the shadow.
On Windows, drop shadows don’t indicate layering, they’re just eye candy. It takes longer to notice which window is foremost. This slows you down.
This is exactly what we mean when we say Windows gets in the way.””
Linux has spent the last few years with an ad-hoc approach to UI. They copy Windows for the most part but every now and then some bright sparks try and do something daring. And geeks turn it off because they prefer “functionality over eyecandy”.
The fact you turn off this eye candy is because it isn’t functional. It serves no function other than to be pleasing to the eye. If they spent more time making it actually functional, then it would be worthwhile. The so-called eye candy on the Mac has a function. It was designed a certain way for a reason and not just because it “looked good” or because “they were doing it on other operating systems”.
The fact you don’t “get it” isn’t a slight on you. There’s choice for a reason but for something to be functional, it doesn’t have to look crap.
@Jimmy: Actually, there are technical reasons why OSX and Unix variants in general have better security: under Unix variants, you *don’t* run as root, you run as a regular user. On Windows, people typically run as Administrator (which is the equivalent of root). That has pretty nasty implications for security. This isn’t marketing, it’s plain fact.
On usability, Paul was correct. Usability it’s a matter of fancy shiny do-dahs, it’s a matter making sure that the user experience is consistent, easily learnable and easily discoverable. Apple concentrate on that end of thing more than MS do and always have. Frankly, I can use cat on the command line on my machine to write documents, but that doesn’t make cat a user-friendly editor. (cat, for those who don’t know, concatenates files together, and if you redirect output from it to a file, you can use it as a simple editor for new files.)
@Paul: Dude, I run FreeBSD on my machine. Aside from the fact that no virus writers target FreeBSD, I run it on a Dell laptop, which, last time I looked, was a PC. My point was that you were inaccurate to contrast Macs (the machine) with PCs (the machine), and that you should be contrasting MacOS (the OS) with Windows (the OS). PC Windows.
Also, I didn’t make any points about antivirus software until this comment.
Michelle.
RE: Telephone Support — well – it STILL is a computer and subject to ?????- I have been an Apple user for ten years –and occassionally you do get the odd WTF. When I was using Windoze there really was no one to turn to and I would spend and inordinate amount of time doing problem solving and troubleshooting until I solved my issue. Granted – I DO have a LOT fewer problems (plug and play truly is that) – but whenever I do get a weird one that has me scratching my head I know I have an IT guy on my payroll — for pennies a day. In my mind even if I call once a year it is worth it. Not to mention the peace of mind from knowing hardware is also covered. (I had to replace a harddrive on one system – a optical drive on another).
Bottom line is I simply think that the APP (Apple Protection Plan) is worth the cost. And if you buy it . . . use it. If you never need the hardware protection — then at least use the telephone support — even for the most foolish of question. That way you are getting full value for your purchase.
Jimmy
I also take issue with a Mac is a shiny ‘overpriced toy’ philosphy – and that idea there is no difference between a Mac PC and a Windoze PC.
The Apple Computer is built by Apple to run Apple’s OS. The intergration between software and hardware contributes to stability and user friendliness. The software that Apple makes (ie iLife iWork .Mac and Mail) are also designed to dovetail into that equation. Apple also works closely with third party software developers to make sure that they delivery that same intergration with the OS that endusers demand. This ends up translating into a smoother workflow. As well as higher productivity.
Microsoft builds an OS —- Someone else (a lot of someones))))))) build the hardware — and yet others make the software (for the most part). All oftimes have there own agenda. And in my experience that equates into a round peg being driven into a square hole with a hatchet. IMHO it is as simple as that.
You sound like a happy Windoze user — great — you found a way of working that works for you ! But you also sound like someone who does really know what it is like to work on a Mac (no games ??!!??). Those who are taking the time to offer Michele worthwhile commentary strike me as voices of experience regarding the world that awaits her. Your comments strike me as just another Windows FanBoy wailing against the rise.
You also take note of the overpriced myth — if you compare on a componet by componet basis the Dell machine that equates will cost more. Apple only makes two portable and three desktop machines — an incredibly small product line. But each is designed for different users and priced accordingly. And in the long run — if you factor in the time wasted with upkeep — Apples end up costing less — it is one reason I am a proponet of AppleCare. Less down time (telephone support) with no repair bill (hardware coverage) for three years.
Finally – if you have an Apple Store (and I mean the Apple Inc retail venues) then you have something no Windoze user has . . . a neighborhood Genius Bar that is alway free. As well as a training center that offers classes for a song. Support after the sale is huge. You are not alone in the world.
And if you don’t live near an Apple store (which btw is opening a new store somewhere in the world every nine days) then the support from the user base is incredible. The sheer numbers of comments generated here show the tip of that iceberg.
Michele.
RE: Office
Take a look at iWork — Pages will open Word and export as Word format.
Keynote will open PowerPoint and also export as that format. Numbers does the same for Excel documents Pages intergrates word processing with desktop publishing in a way that doesn’t feel like software bloat. Keynote presentations make PowerPoints look like a hobos. And Numbers is a spreadsheet program designed for the casual need – not a CPA. You should have gotten a thirty day fully functional working copy on your machine.
Intergration with the iLife suite is also pretty cool. Add iWeb to the mix and I am hard pressed to look for any other software other than Photoshop Elements to end up completely productive.
BTW – the new Web Gallery feature between .Mac and iPhoto puts the power of Flicker into YOUR hands.
@ MacGeek
Very well said. Personally, I have never called AppleCare, never needed to, but I get it anyway nowadays–it’s cheaper and a million times better than what my university supplies.
Unfortunately, even in the US, I don’t live very close to an Apple store. But when I am in a big city, I like to go in there and see the store PACKED with people and onece or twice talk things over with a Mac Genius. They are actually very qualified. Unlike the guy in any computer store who if only there to make a commission and has all the experience of a 16 year old gamer.
On a PC, it’s almost impossible to get support. I think that is why so many people are mentioning this to Michele. It sounds like he has been on the (real) dark side for awhile. Have you called India yet only to be told that it’s Microsoft’s problem? The last time I tried to get through to M$ was in the 90’s. Then they just blame the hardware companies…
Dang! I’m just after rereading my comment. Where I wrote “Usability it’s a matter of fancy shiny do-dahs”, I meant “Usability isn’t a matter of fancy shiny do-dahs”.
Congrats. Have fun!
@Keith:
Sorry Keith, I just read my last comment, and it was supposed to be directed to Jimmy. My apologies.
My original intention was to list the differences I found between using a Mac and using a PC. In short those differences allow me to get on with my work, without having to spend a lot of time just administrating the machine. Maybe that boils down to the difference between the different OS’s, but as Mac OS is only (legally) available on Apple hardware, from an end user point of view it boils down to the same thing.
Cheers,
Paul
MacGeek
I don’t think there are any official Apple stores in Ireland, though I could be wrong. There are a number of shops that are “authorised reseller”, but I somehow doubt that they’d have the kind of expertise inhouse that you speak of.
Maybe the next time I’m in LA I’ll make a pilgrimage to one 🙂
Your analogies about most PC salespeople in computer shops is bang on. I gave up asking those kind of people for meaningful advice quite some time ago, as it was a total waste of time
Michele (who isn’t a girl by the way!)
Re: expertise in Ireland
Quite the opposite. The guys running independent resellers are going to be very good. I’m biased of course as I own the only Apple Authorised Service Provider in Northern Ireland. Our guys are a lot more passionate about being experts than any real Apple Employee I’ve met. Also – don’t discount online forums (disclosure – I also run nimug.org) as they are chock full of free advice. (and unlike forums attached to Linux or BSD User Groups I’ve never seen anyone being told to go RTFM first.)
One recent convert said that buying a Mac was like moving to a small town. People who don’t live there will question your sanity. But it’s a friendly place where everyone knows your name, there’s less pollution and it’s only a short commute back to the city.
MJ
What about resellers in the republic?
Michele