For the second time in the last month or so I’ve received spam from An Fearr Rua.
They’ve obviously been scraping email addresses off websites using a robot.
Wow! Aren’t they innovative!
So now they’re spamming the entire country via Eircom’s SMTP. Great marketing play guys – keep it up!
Who?
Adam
GAA website. Just chuck a .com onto the end of the name
Ah. One ‘r’. What would you expect from a bunch of rednecks though? Although personally I’m surprised they have time to spam, what with all the hang sangwiches and flashks of tae to make and consume.
“what with all the hang sangwiches”
should read
“what with all the spam sangwiches”
It’s always going to be there. There will always be scum like this. It’s almost as certain as death and taxes.
The thing is, this form of “marketing” still yields results. When the rest of the world wakes up to not giving spam the time of day, THEN it will stop.
Adam – My spelling – sorry!
Dave – Unfortunately that’s true, however that doesn’t mean that I have to like it
Hell they probably even won a Golden Spider for their innovative internet marketing. Still though if they are using private e-mail addresses and spamming via Eircom’s Mx then I’m sure the people in Eircom might be pleased to hear about it.
John
Have you tried to report anything to abuse@eircom.net recently? It’s anything but easy…
He spammed me as well, I tracked him down.
The guy behind An Fear Rua is called Liam Cahill who apparently is a former political correspondent for RTE.
For those who are having trouble with him, he does respond to the address liamcahill@indigo.ie.
Conor
What is the response when you email him?
Michele
I got the following:
> I have removed your email address from
> our email database. The address was
> contained in the list of email addresses
> on my personal Indigo account. I have
> no idea of how it came to be there.
> Liam Cahill
He’s no idea how it got there? One of the addresses he’s been using with us only appears in one place online and cannot send mail NOR could it be used to subscribe to any mailing lists
Yeah, it was a completely bullshit response.
I was particularly curious as the address he sent it to is not on the web anywhere and I’ve never actively used it. I have an alias which points to it which is in a WHOIS record, but I’ve never used the address itself.
WITHOUT PREJUDICE
Michele, like Conor McDermottroe, if you send an email to liamcahill@indigo.ie specifying any relevant email addresses they will be deleted immediately.
My Outlook Express is programmed to retain email addresses from all emails I receive. Therefore, in Conor’s case, I received an email from that address at some stage. When he requested it, I deleted it immediately.
I note Conor’s reference to ‘tracking’ me down as if there was some attempt at subterfuge. There was no sleuthing involved on his part. My return email address was clearly stated on the ezine he received and all he did was emailed me.
An allegation of spamming is serious and defamatory. I reject it. The facts are that, from time to time, I send out an ezine to the following:
3,100 Registered Users on our DB
500 GAA clubs
100 GAA administators and officials
1,000 journalists and media contacts.
Clearly, all of the above are recipients with either a personal or professional interest in the ezine contents. For example, the list of GAA administrators was provided to me and other journalists by Croke Park, precisely so that we could send them material.
I have never harvested email addresses from web sites or other sources, apart from my personal list of contacts in Outlook Express.
The ezine contains a clear indication of how to request removal from the distribution. We receive one to two such requests per edition and – as in Conor’s case – these are immediately complied with.
Liam Cahill
*******************
A little ruefully, may I just say how sad it is to see such stereotypical – indeed, neo-racist – depictions of GAA followers as ‘rednecks’, ‘scum’ etc. Looks like the Irish blogosphere has some way to go yet to catch up on reality.
Liam
The email address you targetted is only ever used by spammers who harvest email addresses from websites. As it never actually sends any emails you cannot state that you acquired it, or any of the other email addresses I received your spam on in that manner.
Secondly, even if you had received an email from that address that does not give you any right to send your spam to it.
Regards
Michele
I’d like to second Michele’s comment regarding your “address book”. Since when does emailing someone give you a right to send them your crap?
WITHOUT PREJUDICE
Michele,
Just to be clear: My comment in relation to an address being in my Outlook Express list related only to Conor McDermottroe. Not to you. That is very clear from my posting above.
Until you tell me the specific email you are referring to I cannot comment further. As you know, you have already received a private email from me in this matter and I expect a reply to it.
Liam Cahill
An Fear Rua – The GAA Unplugged!
http://www.anfearrua.com
adam,
Have you read the ezine I sent to Michele?
Liam Cahill
An Fear Rua – The GAA Unplugged!
http://www.anfearrua.com
Liam
I have not received any email from you this evening.
Unless you can prove that all the recipients of your “ezine” have opted in there’s not much point in continuing this
Michele
Redirection is a teenage-level tactic Liam, particularly when you can’t even make it relevant.
Answer my question: Since when does emailing someone give you a right to send them your crap?
Answer Michele’s question: Where did you get his email address?
Liam
Correction – I did get an email from you, but as it’s a carbon copy of your comments on here I won’t be emailing you back – you can reply here or not – I don’t really care
Michele
Answer Michele’s question: Where did you get his email address?
adam,
I’d like to answer it and I will. But, so far, he hasn’t given it to me.
Franly, at this point, it’s unclear to me whether he wants to have a email address removed from our mailing list or whether he’d just prefer to keep up a vendettaq against An Fear Rua.
Liam Cahill
An Fear Rua – the GAA Unplugged!
http://www.anfearru.com
Redirection is a teenage-level tactic Liam, particularly when you can’t even make it relevant.
Thanks, adam
I think we can take it from the above response that you haven’t read the ezine. That puts in perspective your evaluation of it as ‘crap’.
Liam Cahill
An Fear Rua – the GAA Unplugged!
http://www.anfearrua.com
Liam
Correction – I did get an email from you, but as it’s a carbon copy of your comments on here I won’t be emailing you back – you can reply here or not – I don’t really care
Michele
WITHOUT PREJUDICE
Michele,
Are you going to tell me the email address you allege was spammed or not? If not, how can address the alleged issue.
Failing such disclosure, withdraw your defamatory description of me as ‘an emailing scumbag’.
Liam Cahill
An Fear Rua – the GAA Unplugged!
http://www.anfearrua.com
Liam
It’s very simple. Show that you have actually got subscription requests from the people you are sending your mailing to.
Neither of the email addresses that you sent your “newsletter” to would have ever subscribed to your newsletter, so why are you sending them mail?
Why should the onus be on the spammed to get their email addresses removed from a database they never wanted to be added to in the first place?
As one of the addresses you targetted is basically a spamtrap I can’t see how you’re going to be able to explain that.
And by the way, don’t try to put words in my mouth – read my original post again.
Regards
Michele
Interesting -I just did a search through the page for the word “scumbag”. It only appears once – in Liam’s post!
Maybe he was quoting from another complainant?
Grandad,
Please refer to the URL for this thread: http://www.mneylon.com/blog/archives/2006/11/30/an-fearr-rua-are-spamming-scum/#comments
‘spamming scum’ … ‘scum bag’ Same difference … Grandad
Liam Cahill
An Fear Rua – the GAA Unplugged!
http://www.unplugged!
It’s very simple. Show that you have actually got subscription requests from the people you are sending your mailing to.
WITHOUT PREJUDICE
Michele,
I have an individual email from each recipient confirming their ‘opt in’. I also have an XL spread sheet and TXT file with their ‘opt ins’.
I am not prepared to publish these in a public forum such as these. However, I have already indicated my willingness to communicate with you privately regarding this matter.
That offer still stands.
May I again request you to inform of the email addresses you allege received spam so that I can investigate the matter and resolve. Your failure to do this is disturbing, to say the least and calls into question your motives and your bona fides.
Liam Cahill
An Fear Rua – the GAA Unplugged!
http://www.anfearrua.com
“’spamming scum’ … ’scum bag’ Same difference … Grandad”
Not true.
“spamming scum” = adjective followed by noun. i.e. The scum is qualified as a spammer.
OR
“spamming scum” = verb followed by noun. i.e. The spammer is sending spam to scum.
“scumbag” = noun [no ambiguity]
So it’s NOT ‘same difference’. Michele could be referring to himself as the scum receiving spam. Unlikely, but you are incorrect in accusing Michele of calling you a scumbag. You are using an argument based on assumption.
Grandad – Exactly.
Liam – Nobody is asking you to publish your mailing list. However, as you may have now realised, there are obviously a number of addresses on there that shouldn’t be there. You may contend that you have people’s permission, whereas I know for a fact that one of the email addresses we received the mail on has never sent a mail ever.
If you were using a proper opt in mechanism your list would be clean and this wouldn’t have happened.
If you need assistance in setting up a properly run and industry compliant mailing list there are several resources out there to assist you.
Regards
Michele
Quote: ‘Show that you have actually got subscription requests from the people you are sending your mailing to.’
Michele,
Please indicate precisely how you wish me to ‘show’ this?
I have already stated that the Registered Users of my site have given permission. They are explicitly requested to do this at the point of registering as members of our DB. The GAA volunteered me a contact list for officials because they want them kept up to date. In the case of journalists, it has always been custom and practice to send them media releases without prior notification. (Ask anyone you know working in media and they’ll confirm this). However, even in the case of journalists, they have the option of refusing to receive our ezines and we have complied immediately in the past with 4 or 5 such requests. Those three categories account for everyone on our ezine distribution list and amount to 100% permission from recipients.
I’ve responded to this allegation in an open manner.
I’m disappointed that you have failed to provide me with the email addresses that were allegedly spammed, so that I could investigate and further.
It seems to me you’d prefer this issue to continue as a stick to beat An Fear Rua with, rather than resolve it quickly and pragmatically. This makes me suspect your real agenda in prolonging the issue.
Others of your contributors seem to see it as a discussion in which to display their juvenile-level insults. They are more to be pitied than anything else.
In the circumstances, this is my final word on the topic.
“My Outlook Express is programmed to retain email addresses from all emails I receive. Therefore, in Conor’s case, I received an email from that address at some stage.”
Do you use any anti-virus/spam filtering prior to Outlook Exprtess? It is possible that your Outlook Express program is storing all the addresses from virus laden e-mails with spoofed (though genuine) e-mail addresses from the infected computer’s browser cache and address book? That could account for the appearance of one way (receive only) e-mail addresses in your list.
I’ve never seen ‘WITHOUT PREJUDICE’ in blog comments before. 🙂
Can it even be applied to things published publicly?
For the people who have never sent an email to AnFearRua, is it possible somebody else used their email address?
I got 100s of spam after my “friends” started using my email address is subscriptions and registrations.
Michele, I’ve enjoyed visiting here from time to time, and though I have little or no interest in GAA ( hurling is pretty good actually but not gaelic), comments such as Adam’s above leave a bad taste in the mouth and it’s a shame to see it on this page
Petey, I think the idea is that Michele got spam to a spam-trap address that real humans never use.
Petey
1 – One of the email addresses hit NEVER sends email. If a mailing list was properly managed all subscriptions would need some form of confirmation – so that email address could not possibly be confirmed. It’s basically a spam trap address
2 – Even if we had received or sent email to An Fear Rua there is no business relationship, so they have no right to mail us their marketing material. If there was a business relationship then under Irish law things would be different.
3 – See points 1 and 2 🙂
Michele
Matt
Adam’s comment may seem harsh, but I don’t think there was any actual malice in it.
Michele
I presume it’s the ‘crap’ comment that’s causing offense? As far as I’m concerned Liam still hasn’t provided a reasonable explanation for email landing in a mailbox that, according to Michele, shouldn’t have been subscribed to a mailing list. Which makes it unsolicited mail, which makes it crap in my book.
>>posted by Michele 1 Dec 2006
>>Unfortunately that’s true, however that >>doesn’t mean that I have to like it
Yes it does.
Michele, Adam,
I think that if Liam doesn’t know the email address in question then how can he respond as to how he got it in the first place?
I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt there.
Rgds,
Kevin
Michele,
While you undoubtedly received an unsolicited mail I suspect the accusation:
“They’ve obviously been scraping email addresses off websites using a robot.”
is far from fully justified.
Equally, would it not be best to just mail Liam as Conor did (or “track him down”, such a sleuth!) and get removed? His response suggests that he would immediately do it.
It seems odd to immediately jump to conclusions of “Scum” when a possiblity of a more innocent explanation has not been at least considered.
-YK2-
Kevin
It’s a spam trap address, so it won’t be divulged.
YK2 – one of the email addresses only ever receives spam and is not used for sending mail. It is published on one page on one website ie. anyone sending to it has scraped it. So it is justified.
If Liam cleans up his mailing list he won’t have any issues with me in the future.
Michele
I can’s speak for Michele, but I find it pretty easy to tell the difference between an email address that I’ve specifically used to opt-in to a mailing list, and one that’s been scraped from a website.
Michele
Can I just be clear on this.
You are still 100% sticking to your allegation that AFR uses a Robot to scrape e-mail addresses off the internet to send his e-zine to ?
BnA
Michele
Handbags at Dawn ! The GAA are also in breach of irish data protection law as they provided personal data to a third party when they passed on their contact list to AFR, unless of course they got permission from everyone.
I too have suffered from Irish originated spam, though usually from companies totally ignorant of the spam/data protection laws, who think just because you emailed them once gives them the right to spam you thereafter. The following two step process usually sorts it out pronto.
1. Tell them they are commiting an offence under the Data Protection Act (1988) and have 40 days to reply to you in writing confirming removal of your address from their ‘direct marketing list’.
2. After 40 days, file a complaint to the Data Protection Commissioner (you can do this very quickly by email). Data protection commissioner contacting them usually sorts it out and also helps to build up some offical stats on our national spammers.
the other slightly less orthodox approach I have used successfully in the past is to advise irish spammers that you will invoice them for your time required to deal with further unsolicted email.
DM
Reply to this comment by DM:
Handbags at Dawn ! The GAA are also in breach of irish data protection law as they provided personal data to a third party when they passed on their contact list to AFR, unless of course they got permission from everyone.
Reply:
I had not intended contributing further to this thread. While the GAA are well able to speak for themselves, I cannot let the above defamatory comment pass without reply.
The provision of contact details to bona fide media (it was not just provided to me) is clearly intended to help in publicising the aims and activities of the Association and is, therefore, in conformity with the Data Protection law. To suggest otherwise, would render illegal all contact between any organisation and the media that involved provision of details of their members.
For example, it would be illegal for the GAA to announce to the media that Henry Shefflin lives in Ballyhale, county Kilkenny and plays for the local Shamrocks club and attended WIT. Such an interpretation would be a draconian interference with freedom of communication and freedom of the press and any legislation that was interpreted in this way would be repugnant to certain protected constitutional rights.
Only an imbecile or a moron, like DM, who appears to dwell in some ivory tower, would contend otherwise.
Michele, I thought we had reached equilibrium in this discussion some weeks back. I think it is regrettable, to say the least, that it has been stoked up again in the New Year in this disgraceful fashion.
I know you basically ignore my inputs. However, if you let that outrageous slander by DM stand you should be ashamed of yourself.
DM – It’s not clear from Liam’s previous comments if the GAA are in breach of data privacy legislation.
As far as I’m concerned the matter is dead until one of my spamtraps gets hit again 🙂
Liam
Considering there is a far more libellous thread on your forum I’d be very wary if I were you.
Regards
Michele
You’re a hoot Liam, bandying about words like “defamatory” one minute and calling people “imbeciles” the next. Do yourself a favour and be quiet, you’re only embarrassing yourself at this stage.
And Liam, it’s libel, not slander 😉
Liam
Thanks for the reply, sorry you feel it necessary to throw insults my way, i thought we were contributing different points of view on a data privacy and business ethics debate.
My understanding is
Personal information collected may only be used for the purposes for which it was collected and with the consent of the individual to which the information pertains.
If I provided my email address to the GAA along with others and they passed it to a third party such as yourself without my consent, then that would be a breach of the Data Protection Act, (1988).
Secondly if I email an organisation with for example a query about a product they provide, that does give them the right to use that email address for direct marketing purposes, since no consent was obtained to use the personal information for that purpose.
To respond to your example with GAA Player information, the GAA would be entitled to release any information that is already in the public domain, or that was collected from the player with the consent or understanding that it would be released and used in the public domain.
but hey, I’m just an lawyer, so what would I know about the law 🙂
This will be my last comment on this subject, I’d don’t really see the value in engaging in debate with you further.
wishing An Fear Rua the success it deserves in 2007.
DM
Look can you please withdraw the remark about Mr Cahill, harmful generalisations have no place on any discussion forum. His explanation seems logical enough to me.
Limerick Nomad
Harmful generalisations? Would those be generalisations like calling someone who spams a ‘spammer’, or what?
Limerick Nomad
I have several spamtrap addresses. If you don’t know what a spamtrap is have a look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spamtrap
ANY mail sent to a spamtrap is spam as the address DOES NOT receive legitimate mail and DOES NOT send mail.
Regards
Michele
I just found this post after a google search pertaining to a deluge of spam I am having to deal with. It is quite distressing and I can understand why a recipient could have issues keeping calm. I therefore applaud the moderation of some of the posts to Liam while I accept that some of the flaming is difficult to both agree with or admonish given the emotive side of having to deal with spam.
The posts were of no use to me but an entertaining read. What struck me most of all is the absolute lack of awareness on Liams part that he is the focus because he sent unsolicited email. If he didn’t, this post would not exist. Why not make a sinsere apology to the person(s) you spammed and those you flamed for backing him up when you failed to acquiess? This questiuon is put sincerly so dont answer if you are going to insult my intelligence with an explanation as to why it happened. Clearly you are either sorry you did it or you are not. It would appear from the read above that you are not other than the fact that you were caught…..
Kind regards,
John
John,
Your distress at having to deal with a ‘deluge’ of spam is obviously interfering with your ability to read plain English and / or use your reason. At no point have I accepted that I sent unsolicited emails. That is the whole point of this thread …. twerp. You are the first person to accuse me of ‘flaming’ in this controversy. Even Mikayleeeee hasn’t accused me of that.
So, John, buzz off with your high-handed assumptions about me and my business, your biassed preconceptions and misconceptions and continue your Google search to find someone else to gratuitously insult.
I was content to leave this controversy lie and I think other parties to it have done the same. However, busybodies like you should mind their own petty business.
Liam
Why do you have such difficulty spelling my name? I could understand you having problems with the pronunciation, but the spelling?
Oh my God. Liam, I am sorry. Quite seriously and genuinely. I did not mean to rattle your cage. I was comenting on a forum provided for comment. I was not trying to insult you. I felt my opinion was as valid and permissable on the site as anyone elses. Maybe I was wrong. I have no intention of unravelling myself or geting involved in an online fight to prove my point at the risk of further enraging you.
I hope your future email communications are more fruitful for you and your recipients.
Thankyou
John
Liam,
I work for Michele, and I have seen the address the email was sent to. It is on one site, and is, as Michele said, a spamtrap.
This leaves two options for how you got the address:
1. You either scraped some sites for email address to send your spam to, or bought a list of email addresses from someone who has done the same.
or
2. You have incorrectly configured you mailing list software and aren’t validating email addresses that subscribe to your list.
If the reason 1 is why you have this address on your list, you are indeed a spamming scumbag. If technical ignorance is why the email address got on your list, I would suggest that you get someone who knows what they are doing to double check your settings and make sure that this doesn’t happen again.
John
Your comments are welcome
Michele
Liam,
I just went onto the An Fearr Rua site to see how you are handling the signups. From the main site I clicked on GAAzetteer under “find it!”, and then clicked on the “Drop an e-mail to our webmaster” link at the top. This led to a totally blank page. Looks like a coding issue as the response code is “ERROR 500: Internal Server Error.”
If people can’t contact you from the website, how are they supposed to be able to sign up? Any “Email Us” link I tried led to the same blank page.
I don’t have a copy of the email here, but from what I recall it was sent using LookOut Express. Why aren’t you using proper mailing list software such as MailMan or Group-Mail to send the “Ezine”? These will automatically send an email to each email that signs up with a unique code and verify that the email address is legit. It will also give you nice log of the IPs that the signup request comes from so you can avoid this kind of situation in the future.
Niall.
Liam, whether anyone said it or not, you were clearly being extremely rude. Read over your previous posts; it’s quite ridiculous.
As John seems to have a legitimate interest in this thread (he found this by searching for posts about spam, did he not?) your reaction is a bit much. Spam is an issue that the whole Internet community has to deal with, after all.
Liam
I couldn’t help but think about this today. It’s possibly more to do with your horrible attitude than anything else but lets leave that aside (for real) and see….
You reckon you didn’t send spam. This is a difficult one. It depends on what is an acceptable definition of spam and this will vary from person to person regardless of what official definition exists.
However, we do not require a definition for unsolicited email. It is far clearer in meaning and understanding.
You said to me above “At no point have I accepted that I sent unsolicited emails.”
You clearly and undeniably sent email to someone who clearly and undeniably did not solicit email from you. It can happen for a variety of reasons, some of them understandable and some of them absolutely unacceptable. All of them warant an apology and for the understandable ones this may be enough where intent is not an issue.
Unfortunately I feel a happy ending or even a resolution is a long way off here, not necessarily because you are a serious offender but because you want to be right after the fact. I didn’t post here to insult you. My posts pertain to spam and spammers and recipients and the whole problem of unsolicited email.
I wouldn’t mind hearing your side of the story (where exactly you got the address and why you believe they expected and wanted email from you. A lively debate is fine but heated argument with pure strangers who could be saints or sinners cant be good for the spirit.
Best regards to all (including you Liam) (:
John
I was searching for gaa news signups (need minute by minute updates on donegals voyage to champion status…)
Anyway I found a mention of anfear… (wont use full domain incase i give him traffic) and did my own search for it in google. Oops, v.bad press. I will not be providing my email to the admin of that domain. I think his attitude is more discusting than the spam. Just about anywhere i provide my email address will at some point or another sen some unwanted email. I compain to some (time and energy issue) but always receive a prompt apology. Weather it is sincere or not i dont know but this is the first time i have come accross a proud spammer. Please please someone sue him. I cant see how you could loose. I am no solicitor but doesn’t this nasty piece of work just get under your skin….
Peter
oops I just reread the posts and it appears that liam considers anyone who comments on his actions a busybody unless he spammed them personally. What a gobshite (sorry moderator, I am using that word as the description which came to mind)
Spam is something which effects every avid email / internet user and for a spammer (yes i know you didn’t accept that you sent unsolicited email but miraciously people received it from you and you got defensive and offensive rather than apologetic or even interested when they pointed it out and while the reality of this escapes you, the obviousness of it is beneath explanation) to term a person a busy body because they have an opinion on it is well quite stupid really.
Of course the alternative is for you to explain why you are right and the rest of the world in sadly wrong. I bet you wont / cant / couldn’t